Present: Kobun (K) · Carmelia (Car) · Gert · Margaret (Marg) · Mary Kate (MK) · Angie · Steve Bodian (S) · Glenna (Gl) · Barbara (B) · George · Hathaway · Joyce · Judy · Ruth (R) · Edie
March 3, 1975. Glenna's House.
K: (after a long silence) Good morning.
In order to understand what this men-ju, transmission face to face, I like to speak a little about contents of this men-ju. Men-ju, word itself — some feeling of form, face, appearance — men is face. If something have shape face, front and back — if someone appear there is face. Backside face and frontside face. This men, and ju — compound men-ju, promises there are two figures, not just one face. Confronting and meeting is mentioned by this word, and hand to hand, face to face, mind to mind, eye to eye, body to body, situation to situation. So as a whole, what kind of meeting is this word is mentioning something important.
Now, what I like to mention this morning is what kind of meeting it is. What meets like that. Subject is very easily understood. In every kind of meeting you can speak of men-ju, but what make this men-ju possible is very point we want to know. Last time I spoke, if you want to continue your knowledge you have to have somebody to maintain your knowledge. Music, or painting, or cooking, sewing, sweeping, mechanics, potteries. There is such idea involving into this transmission of skills, knowledge. Direct continuity from one to another in the actual history, actual time advancing, wish to do it. This particular word which is used in Zen tradition is — of the religious — to say religious at this point is little too common feeling, but — succession of spirit depend on different kind of religion. Sometime you can see similar form, similar occasion which can be called men-ju, which can be not called men-ju.
Best example, we looked into meeting of Mahakashyapa and Shakyamuni Buddha last week. Remember? Everyone in the meeting supposed to understand what happened, but everyone except Mahakashyapa didn't know what happened. That kind of specific, very special happening.
In order to understand this point, when we discuss about so-called Way Mind, or Arising of Way-seeking Mind, it become more helpful to understand what this men-ju is. Particularity is this thing — Way-seeking Mind. One individual appear on this earth and very...how do you say?...impersonal concern this particular man arise in his mind, so that...To use this analogy is not so good, but...old beggar stands on your door and say something. "I want something." If you cannot see what he wants to have, immediately, men-ju isn't done. You say, "What can I do?", is too late. This man is hungry, cold, some particular thing, because he stands your door, at your entrance. If he just kidding you, you say, "Next door. You don't need anything."
Very important point is Way-seeking Mind. When I say arising of Buddha's mind, whether Way-seeking Mind is...how do you say?...thirsty mind, or unfulfilled mind, needing something...Way-seeking Mind is something different. You cannot do anything on it but follow to it. What do you think Way-seeking mind?...we say often this word. Seems discovery, arising of one's basic ability, nature of life, which you discover and respect your life because of it. Before Way-seeking Mind appears intellect works, controlling your existence. Life should be like this, family tradition is like this, we should go like this. Man is not separated from society, so...(lost) All of those thinkings are fine, but it doesn't relate with basic respect of your life, how you wanted to be of this earth.
In Dōgen's term, this Shinran Shonin's term,1 this is called Hosshin: Arising Mind, Starting Mind, Discovered Mind, Opened Mind. And Shugyo: practice. Bodhi: awakening. And Nehan: Nirvana. Four stages: Rising Mind, practice, Awakening, Nirvana. This is like four part of circle, and it goes maybe four faces of the house. It's man's mind to construct or understand what basic function of life is. In children's term this appear in teaching practice, faith, and...how do you say?...sho is confirmation. Kyo (teaching) gyo (practice) — shin (faith) — sho (confirmation)...and this Dōgen Zenji's...this arising mind, ongoing practice, constant awakening and perfect, utmost peace — these four are seen in one's development, is advancing of life.
At the same time, one includes three all the time, so if you speak of Arising Mind, other three are with it. And when you speak Practice, Arising Mind is in it. And Awakening, and result, maybe purpose, or result, or virtue is with it. In this way it is not static stages, it is always contained in one man's existence. Very dynamic way to see what religious life is in each day, each hour, each moment. Maybe this kind of life which is ready to...how do you say?...meet with...to be found by anything or anybody, or by itself, or by himself, or by all. This is what men-ju make possible. Like a seed which is in the ground, right time and right place, sunshine hit, raindrop hit — that is how men-ju works. It doesn't matter whether it is man or woman. This readiness can happen any time. But if it doesn't happen, it is same as nothing is happening. Stored seed in the dark place, and stored seed on the highway asphalt, that is...are not much different. Readiness is very important.
Meeting of Nyojō and Dōgen Zenji in Tendo Mountain very much from both sides very ripened stage to meet, even though they didn't know others are coming close. Day before Dōgen stepped into this mountain, Manjushri appeared in Nyojō's dream. Two weeks ago I spoke of this. If your Way Mind is very alert, this kind of thing is usual. You sense something before physical meeting appear. Your alert Way Mind is inspired by foreknowledge. Because of not something is coming, but readiness of yourself, your side.
Dōgen spoke of this in this way: Bamboo...Song of bamboo is beautiful, but it doesn't appear alone. Waiting for meeting with Spring wind it appear. Like when flower bloom, it's powerful. From inside, by itself it blooms with great power. At the same time, being opened is great...with same amount of pressure, of power it is opened. Great power of Spring, or...you feel both.
When Dōgen came to see Nyojō, he didn't surprise that this Nyojō was waiting, already knew he was coming, but he was so deeply inspired that it happened. His expectation what would happen is very sure, knowledge what would happen is very sure because readiness to drop, to flourish. What happened is to...how do you say?...express whole body and mind filled with emotion, emotion — very sensation is good to say. That was beginning real very hard practice from that point. Way-seeking Mind of Dōgen was placed exactly where it should be in the very beginning. In a sense Dōgen Zenji's Way-seeking Mind was from thirteen years old to twenty, twenty-five. It was like crazy mind, like burning fire in the air...very...himself cannot control it because it burns. Right place...that was Nyojō...still burns very hard, and Nyojō, master Nyojō had to take care of this burning fire.
Various historical question is what flame of this fire. It's not person question. How it happen, in Shisho2 Dōgen discuss about this. In Zen tradition seven past Buddhas, from Vairocana to Shakyamuni Buddha...how come this seven past Buddhas are transmitted Dharma one after another? Is that possible, that before Shakyamuni there were Buddha? Nyojō speaks, "You do not see transmission of Dharma, just one way." When you measure something you can measure from this way to this end (demonstrating), you can measure same measurement from this end (opposite) to this end. By Shakyamuni Buddha, Mahakashyapa, and all past Buddhas transmitted Dharma. It means...how do you say?...tulip blooms right now, it tells past history of it, and it also fully expressing there is future. When someone called musical instrument, and right sound appear, before sound and after sound...if your hand is...begin to have dot, right dot, there is promise of next maintainance.
To do, go into translating of text, because of very old vocabularies which very unfamiliar with. You have to mention that each of your life, for this life, is quite old vocabulary. Question or discussion?
R: I didn't understand about vocabulary. You looked around and said each of our lives is an old vocabulary. Is that what you said?
K: Yes. Is poppy, California-born poppy two hundred years ago is very similar to present poppy. Vocabulary? Until last time we read old text and your eyes became crossed, and so to continue little difficult. So wanted to mention no need to be. You are already like that.
R: I guess you're saying something different than I thought you were saying.
Gl: Kobun, when we talk about face to face transmission, somehow I thought in words, but perhaps transmission is also inspiration.
K: Yes. When you read Lotus Sutra this inspiration discussed in terms of men-ju. Dipankara (nento).3 Buddha inspired by (lost) Bodhisattva walk on his back. Became like little log, or bridge. This Dipankara would walk across the path, walking on Shakyamuni Buddha's body, maybe without touching it, and pointing, "This man is the next Buddha." This is not men-ju, this is inspiration. Ju ki4 is the word. Confirming or noting transmission. What does this word transmit?
S: It is to send across. Mit means to send. Trans, across.
K: I understand why you said inspiration. I have a question about this subject in Christian tradition. Whenever I meet with father I ask him, "Is there any such thing in Christian tradition?" Tradition of Dharma since fathers, brothers have sense of this.
R: What does he say?
K: "I'm so sorry. We don't have it." They see transmission of Dharma very worldly and horizontal human business. From the very beginning Buddhism is a very earthly and right (lost) phenomenon always appear, so it can be seen very horizontal, karmic. Question is, I wanted to know then, what was origin in terms of maintainance of Christianity, and I say, "You cannot run to the God, you cannot run away to the God." One father said that New Testament is another version of Buddhist text. Very earthly. Even though there are several unclear points, it is very understandable, human mind can really understand it. Comparing Old Testament, this New Testament is very very earthly. Christianity is very earthly, down to the earth. It is dogmatic in building another human business. His understanding of Christ was very close to Bodhisattva and Shakyamuni Buddha. Question didn't stop. "How it come that Christ was only son of God? Who decided it? If you can tell it, then I can understand what transmission is in Christian sense."
B: Could he?
K: (missed) [in the left margin beside this line, a later hand in soft pencil: stopped]5
Gl: When we talk about transmission I feel fuzzy. experienced it or not, or whether it is some idea. I don't know whether I've6
K: No. You're fuzzy, and it's happening.
S: Is it possible to receive transmission from inanimate objects?
Gl: And are there inanimate objects?
K: In general, in perfect sense you can not marriage7 with desk, but you can engage with desk, because it become...concerning of you to the table keeps you engagement as if it is married, you are married. Transmission of Dharma is done already, so that you see the table beside you. You see yourself beside table. That is how Dharma transmission — it's more whole-some condition.
S: (lost)
K: And what nature of your question is, seeing is transmission? No? But being seen by you, table is possible to transmit Dharma, and I say "Yes". Teaching is like that. [a heavy soft-pencil arrow in the left margin points at this passage]8
S: Being transmitted enables you to see Dharma in all objects?
R: Being in the right place at the right time.
Marg: It seems as though you're transmitting to yourself.
K: Yes, in some very (lost) sensation it is true, but actually what is it is Dharma transmit Dharma. You are not transmitting Dharma to you. Maybe you are in another world of Dharma, so you feel it. You found this bird. Sagi. Egret. Kenjmuso9 has very beautiful poem of this bird, too.
Car: Somehow I can (lost) with transmission. Something is transmitted, but someone has to catch it. It's not clear in my own mind.
K: In one word, if you do not see a follower, you are not a teacher. Inspired is to see yourself half part of you. If it happen, the one who inspired you is inspired by you, too, so other half is dropped. Just inspiration exist, nothing else exist. You may say, because of mother, because I am a mother, so I do this. Mother and children have other ends of same doing, just doing exists — and end of whole thing you see children, and end of whole thing you see yourself, and you call "my children", and children call "my mother". They are experiencing something and through it discover there is mother. Husband and wife, too. Strange thing, teacher and student are like that, too. Something exist, and you have to see yourself as a student and teacher through something. It's not vice versa — vice versa is not the (lost). Something exist so you feel you are student, teacher, and both, and finally you don't need to care what teacher should be, how teacher should be, how student should be, but you are doing it.
To be somebody who is called disciple or teacher, trouble — again I go back to Christian problem — when Christ appeared among people no one could understand, none could identify him with certain name, even all disciples had to finally say, "I don't know this man." If they bravely say, "This is my teacher", then he would be identified as the terrorist or something, so they had to say, "I don't know him." I don't know myself, but Resurrection was very clear. We don't see the person's, the man's before and after, but what had happened, the situation which holded that occasion showed the Resurrection — this happened when one live with somebody and one dies, the Resurrection happens.
The living person, Taishun Sato, zenji,10 the present Abbot of Eiheiji, passed away one week ago around same time I was talking about him. Maybe Thursday morning? Harriet doesn't know — even she went in his realm, she didn't see him. Eiheiji is his place. He was out and we went to see him last Spring, so we didn't meet. Knowing it will be last meeting, even it doesn't happen, it is last meeting. We went.
Gl: Was he the very old man who only comes occasionally to the monk's hall?
K: (lost) The present one is blind, but see everyone by wind people make, by sound people make. It's very scary. You walk carefully. This Kanin-ryo (president's room),11 when first I went Eiheiji he was Kanin-ryo. (lost) because he doesn't see — very very bright day, barely he sees appearance of people, just like figure, shape. His sense of hearing and listening is very very clear. Like exactly how we see things, no two things. His remembering of voice is fantastic. About five minutes of interview and one year later person come and he remember all. It was beautiful day, very fantastic morning. Busy attendance.
MK: Is this the man that died?
K: Yes. He always say to the attendant, "Carefully step the last step!" Walking the many stairs of Eiheiji. If you go to Eiheiji it's like mountain climbing. You get tired when you reach the top building. He remember all steps Eiheiji has and attendants are also familiar with all steps. Abbot says, "One more step! Carefully! See what I said?" Monk fell down. "You must be careful." Monk ignore two steps and sometime hit the (lost) held down.
Gl: Was he always blind?
K: No, no. Last ten years. Few years before I went to Eiheiji it started, so almost thirteen years.
Gl: Will we have some memorial service for him?
K: Maybe this evening? Short chanting when we gather. Taishun Sato — this abbot is one who understood situation of this country and decided "Yes, you can go." And my master, Dharma master, is student of this. For me is very important person.
MK: For us, too. We should certainly chant for him.
K: Time?
B: It's 11:30.