Present: Kobun (K) · Carmelia · Nena · Gert · Glenna (Gl) · Mary Kate · Angie · Babette · Hathaway · Barbara · George · Joyce · Ruth (R) · Edie
March 10, 1975. Glenna's House.
K: Good morning. Nice tea.
R: Does it have a name?
Gl: It's lemon verbena and lemon grass. I'd like to make an announcement. We talked about translating the Four Vows. I have some of them. If anyone would like to do that, please speak to me.
K: (to Nena) Know what happened?
Gl: We can speak about it.
K: Is there any question about what we are discussing last few weeks?
Gl: I have a question about transmission. We were talking about Nyojō and Dōgen's meeting. Reading about Dharma transmission, it seems like something that happens maybe once in a lifetime, and the other idea is that it's happening all the time.
K: Is it other idea? Talk same thing, different angle. Maybe that is idea of thing. Begin with terms of human existence we spoke man to man, face to face transmission. I was thinking is that one...is it possible to...how do you say?...concentrate this relation into one's own everyday practice? Probably transmission, idea of transmission is how to change syllables, sentence, how to change sentence and not losing matter what you are concerned. In music what do you call this, when one section go and turn new, there is change of notes, but you express the same tension and same quality in different form? (to George)
Transmission is not only transmission of form, but something which is connected one to another. That point is very important. Nowaday people have very strong Way Mind, very deep Way-seeking Mind, and this way-seeking Mind, unless it discover itself through something, with something, it cannot be satisfied, so what happen is strong Way-seeking Mind travels situation, one to another. This is how you see man very often here, or in another place, in terms of seek teacher or situation — very honest action to Way-seeking Mind. Particularly whether or not he recognized Way-seeking mind is not actually choosing teachers, conditions — this means circumstance, conditions are emphasized, not with sky, moon, or man himself. This happen with Dōgen Zenji for many years, and finally he crossed the ocean and went into another country. China gave same opportunity to Dōgen to recognize his own Way-seeking Mind. Not situation. Many figures in China mention this point to Dōgen. Master say, "Go home. Go home." Rujing1 said, "Go home, live in countryside, practice in countryside." Between city, very (lost) energy. That's very kind advice. He had to return, involving of energy.
Question is this transmission, how one can maintain it. Once a life, maybe, Glenna said. It's not "maybe", it is once a life. It is one meeting, one period — period is like one life, or you say one life is one period, one hour is one period. It expresses what is time and what is being in time, being in the time. Long time ago, Ichi-go-ichi-e,2 spoke this as spirit of tea ceremony. If we missed one meeting, a meeting, until next life you have to wait.3
Men-ju has such a very serious matter, very puzzling subject. "I'm ok. But maybe not." Now another way into approach same subject is, probably it is happening all the time, entire life. Little shaky when you say, "Maybe this is it." All the time is the feeling to say it's happening all the time no matter how you are, happy time or unhappy time, day time, night time — it is constant happening no matter you recognize it or not recognize it.
Question arose, similar question arose last week, end of discussion: Ju-ki. Ju-ki is another word.4 In Lotus Sutra this subject, Ju ki is discussed many places. Ju is transmission, ki is reminder of transmission. About confirmation of enlightenment: supreme enlightenment is given as a reminder — Buddha said to some practicing Bodhisattva, "Ten lives from now, you will achieve perfect enlightenment!" (laughs) It's like mother. "If you're a good baby..." Ju ki as broad stretched. Men-ju, unless it happen no discussion about it.
Gl: Does men-ju mean human being to human being?
K: Yes. Men, that is face to face. When you look into this men, what kind is possible to meet, it become human being to human being, rock to rock, flower to flower, sound to sound, color to color. You can see there is many faces, because we are humankind in very limited sense, so discussion is focused face to face.
A: I have a question. If two people meet and there is a third one watching, what about that third person? And what about those two, for him?5
K: It all depends on this third one. If meeting is not men-ju, there is only meeting of three. If the third one is ready to see something, he see, or she sees this men-ju, sees the men-ju, but not experiencing it. If he or she is not ready to see, there is only two persons at that meeting. Two figures — that means separation. And yet at this point meeting of two includes this third person, so from meeting men-ju there is no third person, because he or she is within men-ju. So when seeing of them third person to two persons meeting is called men-ju, their seeing is not just one side, it is merit of men-ju which includes seeing in it. That is why even it is not mutual acceptance from one to other, one way acceptance is possible.
We discussed about ju-ki: many lives from now you will achieve it. When Buddha said to Bodhisattva, Bodhisattva doesn't know why it is so. He said, "Oh. You promised it to me." Very clear thing, it is not achieved. But for Buddha it is achieved, so he can say, "You're on the track." Encouraged. Ignorance, underness, darkness at this point is by ability which is another term for faith, or capacity.
So the subject of meeting with fitting teacher or fitting disciple, student, is very important subject. [in the left margin beside this paragraph, a later hand in soft pencil: stopped]6 Because this engagement...maybe contrast is very good term to use at this point. In music you have harmony...if vibration, two sounds have different kind of vibration, people feel this is uncomfortable sound. Harmony, right...to find right...to be found right student, right teacher, right situation, conditions. And the Way-seeking Mind is the factor which brings you, create that situation.
Way-seeking Mind is very blind...start speak funny things. Way-seeking Mind itself is very blind, but it feels right or wrong, right and wrong, this is very way, this is very way. It's not intellectual seeking mind. You feel. Way-seeking Mind is somewhere...you feel it, vibration of situation — if it is not right, if it exist in not right place, it withdraw. If it is right place, it stays. Very intuitive and very very blind, dark, and...are you always crying for something? Crying for something. Men-ju is at this point the mutual acceptance which seizes crying of Way-seeking Mind, because it is done. It is done. You mutually feel so. This Way-seeking Mind is not needed to move from one to other's place, from one to other's situation.
Basic point, who particularly discussed on this point is Tozan.7 I forgot to bring material. Way-seeking Mind — Tozan had a symbolic way to express his Way-seeking Mind is truth, shin. We can remember: shin. "Show me your truth", was this young monk's question to his master, and Ungan,8 his master, answered...three character go: thus, this, so. "Thus. This. So." Translation is not quite good. Thus. This. So. And Tozan couldn't understand this. Or..."This is it." Maybe in English "This is it", or "That's it." And Tozan decided to move from teacher's place to another.
Hen san9 is this path of Way-seeking Mind. Hen san is universal visiting. Way-seeking mind never satisfy until it cover whole universe. That is hensan. So master said, "Why don't you do hen san? Go away and see world little more. Then come back." Travelling monk's mind is this hen san. Tozan wished to do hen san and because he couldn't see this shin of master, and even master shows it fully, he couldn't see, so that master said, "Take it easy, and if I express it, you regret about it. I will regret about it, and you will regret about be answered." And Tozan went travelling practice, and finally one time he crossed a river, and current water became very calm, and little bridge, log bridge was on this river, and he stepped carefully and saw something in bottom of calm water, and he didn't finish to cross the river — he turned around and came this shore and toward master's direction and bowed few times. "Thank you very much! If you answered, 'This is it' that time, I may have no experience of this." This kind of men-ju exist. Like electric switch go, and few minutes later, it appear.
George: Is it that words are preparation or a prelude to men-ju? Like in music, notes are a prelude to what happens afterward. Is that how you mean it?
K: Umhum. And, as you know, each note is like vocabulary of language. I has to set in certain place, and means ability to catch this note, is very important what kind of ability set this note in right place. When you do...how many? Five lines? Actually very brief division of...what do you call man's realm to sense sound?...ranges of sound. (lost) silence is stronger than thunder. This kind of...expression can see that this layers of sounds, levels, or stages. Picking up some small thing you have...if it is picked up, you have whole thing, because each one thing never separate from whole thing. Our phenomenal world is like that. Each single existence is not separated from whole thing, so men-ju is picked up and picked it. It's merely certain opportunity. Regret is too late, as men-ju doesn't give you any chance to think about it. If you think about it, whole thing turns into grey. Because, as you say, constant happening means you have no time to think about it. Constant advancing — constancy is reality of men-ju.
Gl: It seems to me that there's the quality of being reassured that you're a human being. What is it to be a human beings? How do we know? If some one touches that, then we say, "Oh yes! It's alright!"
K: Let's leave this subject. Be human beings...we are not sure!
Gl: I want to be sure!
K: Climb onto cabinet and change into doll! How do you say...there are many human beings on your altar. You offer incense! If someone offer incense to living man, that's fantastic!
It has been, as you know, biologically, historically with human kind tried so hard who we are, what we are — still question. Still question. Gradually shape changes, because of mind function is constantly taking different form from one hundred years ago, so shape of this bone changes. Even talking about that humankind...what kind are you talking?
Gl: It's impossible to know.
K: Yes.
Gl: But sometimes...
K: You can...how do you say?...assure yourself of yesterday. That is how we are doing. But assure of now is so difficult. Experience of assurance is what we are, actually. Human being is merely idea, and it is nothing, and it is everything. Awakening appeared in that way. Opportunity of awakening is appearing in that way, and human mind say, "This is it!" Many kind of plants, animals are turned away. "I don't like humankind." Many plants are offering them to help our awakening. In that way body consisted — Turn away is to be conditioned, so actually, in that way many plants and many existences are stretching path for human existence without mingling in you. This is why you don't eat rock. Rock is (lost) upon it. We are sitting, actually, on rock, even we are sitting on soft mat. Soft mat is on ground, ground is on rock, like ocean.
This subject is very important — what Tozan saw, what Tozan experienced. He says from the past he never never replace others to you...how do you say...you don't ask someone to live your life. It means your life is your life. And other's life is other's life. You don't say, "Please come into my whole body and live for me." If you misunderstand transmission, you become like this kind of...same subject will be seen in Christ's life, St. Paul's life. I'm not talking (lost)...Their life is not like that, wasn't like that. Same subject is discussed in this men-ju. Face and eye of the self is not the face and eye of the self. The face and the eyes of the Tathagata it is...Tathagata is...Tozan's word: "Thus. Is. So." "Thusness." Nothing but it. Somebody float in the air is not Tathagata. Tatha-gata. The one who thus come, and thus gone, and the one who never come and never gone. Tathagata has that two sides. And this face, men-boku,10 is very face and eyes, very symbolic word — this existence is Tathagata's existence. Tathagata, in Buddhist vocabulary, this Tathagata is same as Buddha, same word as Buddha. Tathagata.
"What face/eye of the Buddha means, moving this face, these eyes to Tathagata, you make Tathagata yourself." Strange way Dōgen speak! Moving this eye and putting it into the Tathagata's eye and make Tathagata's eye your eye. This is one way to see the other side of the transmission, which means you put Tathagata's eye into your eye and be yourself. It is mutual.
George: If I think of transmission, I think of myself as the minus pole and the one who is transmitting as the plus pole. What you're saying is it can't be one way. It has to be alternating current?
K: Alternating current. Yes. And this...transmission so that whether it is alone or...how can I say?...when it is alone, you are alone, it can happen. But in order to let it happen, you have to have other being. Like you make something — to hand something to somebody is transmission, too. Like, I do not make this cup, but the one who made it, hand it to me, I am given and I can experience it fully. But this kind of transmission — and the one who make this kind, doesn't give this to me, but he or she can transmit something else which make me possible to make this. So type of transmission can be seen in this way. Like you say transmission can be done man to cherry flower, or man to tulip. It can be done, of course, but...and it is fully expressed by cherry to man and tulip to man, but whether cherry continue it to other existence is not the matter you can concern.
This is very point human form concern about this maintainance and meditation which is done by one person today, and maybe this evening, tomorrow. Look like, feels like you are doing it from today to evening to morning. We have to look into this very delicate point. You can stop sitting today and never do it again. Because this sitting doesn't promise next sitting. Actually, transmission of sitting exist. Sitting transmit sitting to you. In that way, transmission exist. And Way-seeking Mind is what we are speaking. Pulling zazen action to you. Actually, maybe basic nature of samadhi is pulling you up, always, like this.